Author: mayunholdup
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:47 pm
| Bboy42287 wrote: |
| I could see why people would say this new version would be much easier to abuse. I mean you said yourself it doesn’t have all those fillers and binders which in turn will make it much more abused which is the only down side of this new generic I think. But glad to hear it worked better for you man that’s great. As of people wanting to get on Subutext like the DR said to many others DR think they want this change do to chasing a buzz. But lets face facts that is the down side of subutext if abused it will get you high and that is my only dislike of it. But at the same time not everyone is out to abuse there subutext but it is the people who do that ruin it for the others who do want to take it properly and are on lower doses than they want because of coast of these medications. But that is how things work if the abuse rate is higher for a chemical dependency drug than a lot of DR will stay away from it. Every DR I always talked to about Subutext always said the same thing the only time they will prescribe it is for pregnant girls other than that don’t bother asking. But this is where I am on the side with those DRs yes subutext can help a lot of people with coast but we are addicts and we cant be trusted in the beginning of treatment so I do understand why DR say no. But down the road once proven they can do well with the program than just give them a brake and help he or she out. But that is the catch 22, to many people cant stay in the program long enough because of coast to prove themselfs as trustfull but than the DR is keeping the patients best interest so i dont know what to say. |
You can still abuse Suboxone if you want too as well. The whole "if you shoot up Suboxone the naloxone in it will make you sick" thing is a complete fabrication. Buprenorphine has a much, much higher affinity towards the opiate receptors in your brain then Naloxone does. There are instructions and even a few videos showing people on long term sub maintenance IVing, snorting, and even rectally plugging their Suboxone in both the tablet and film form. Also, it’s the Buprenorphine that blocks the effects of other opiates, now the Naloxone. Also, if you’re on a long-term daily regime of Suboxone/Subutex it’s basically impossible to get high off of it, even if you decided to IV it. Maybe, you might notice a slight buzz the first time since it has a higher bio-availability but just like with everything else you’ll build up a tolerance to it very, very quickly.
The only way you would be able to feel a buzz off of bupe if you’re a long-term user is to skip at least three days of doses, maybe even longer. A few weeks ago I had to skip my dose one day since the pharmacy I went too was out of Sub and the order wouldn’t be in till the next day. So, I went longer than 48 hours between doses and even then I didn’t feel any sort of Buzz, nor did I go through any withdrawal either.
If Subutex was such a danger then why hasn’t BR taken it off of the market?
tearj3rker posted parts of a report that was done by the Department of Health and Ageing in Australia that concluded that Reckitt Benckiser’s claim that naloxone works as a abuse deterrent is false. It also found out that if left exposed, the naloxone in the Suboxone Film can become oxidized and even dangerous.
| Quote: |
| Naloxone is prone to oxidative degradation. In the sublingual tablets, degradation has been minimised by the sponsor, however, the same stabilization approach is not possible for the soluble films. As a consequence, a lower expiry limit for naloxone in the soluble films has been set. The applicant claims that this level of naloxone is sufficient to produce the desired opiate antagonist effects if injected. In addition, the limits proposed for naloxone degradants have been set at much higher levels than in the Australian sublingual tablet specification but are aligned with or more stringent than corresponding limits applied in the USA. In Suboxone Sublingual Film, naloxone degrades rapidly to a large number of and high levels of impurities, whereas naloxone is relatively stable in the sublingual tablet. The sponsor has proposed stricter limits than those of the sublingual tablets. The Medicines Toxicology Evaluation Section of the TGA has advised that the proposed impurity limits have been adequately qualified. |
| Quote: |
| This application was considered by the Pharmaceutical Subcommittee (PSC) of the Advisory Committee on Prescription Medicines (ACPM) (which has succeeded ADEC) at its 130th meeting on 27 January 2010. The subcommittee was unable to recommend approval for registration due to the extreme instability of naloxone in the proposed formulation compared to the registered sublingual tablets. The PSC was concerned that compliant patients taking the soluble film would be exposed to unnecessary additional risks with no concomitant benefit as naloxone is present only as an abuse deterrent. |
| Quote: |
| Study CR92/111 involved the administration of sublingual buprenorphine solution at a dose of 4 mg then 8 mg daily to opioid-dependent subjects until Day 8. This was followed by “challenges� on Days 9, 10 and 11, in which subjects received, in random order, single doses of buprenorphine 8 mg + placebo, buprenorphine 8 mg + naloxone 4 mg and buprenorphine 8 mg + naloxone 8 mg, each given as a sublingual solution. On Day 12, subjects received a single intravenous dose of buprenorphine 8 mg + naloxone 4 mg. Withdrawal symptoms were assessed using a subject-rated 21-item questionnaire, a subject-rated visual analogue scale (VAS), and an observer-rated AusPAR Suboxone Sublingual Film VAS. The investigators found no significant difference between the sublingual treatments and the intravenous challenge for any of the withdrawal measures. In summary, this study does not support the sponsor’s claim. On the contrary, it indicates that subjects who regularly take Suboxone will not experience significant withdrawal if they inject their usual dose (suggesting that the presence of naloxone in the product is not a deterrent to patients injecting their own medication). The study provides no information as to whether the naloxone content of Suboxone will produce withdrawal if injected by users who are dependent on other opioids. |
[/quote]
link to the full report: http://www.tga.gov.au/pdf/auspar/auspar-suboxone.pdf
The reason a lot of doctors wont prescribe Subutex is because they are simply misinformed. They read literature given to them by Reckitt Benckiser and they believe it. Then, some doctors don’t like being told that they are wrong from someone is just a "druggie." Luckily, my doctor is also a pain specialist so he is very informed about all of these matters so he didn’t mind allowing me to switch to Subutex. I’m sure being an established patient for over a year that never asked for early refills and also had a clean urine sample also helped my case a little bit too.
A lot of doctors are also apprehensive to prescribe Subutex because I think I remember hearing my doctor tell me that there is stricter FDA regulations regarding Subutex then compared to Suboxone. Maybe Sub Doc could chime in again and answer this question for us?
Sorry if it seemed like I was jumping down your throat since that was not my intention, I’m just kind of fed up with all of the false information that is out there about Suboxone somehow being safer. It’s just a way for BR to make more profits. Back when BR had full control of the Suboxone/Subutex market they weren’t releasing all of this crap then went Subutex went generic they started this PR campaign saying how Subutex is somehow more dangerous. Then, the patent on the Suboxone Tablet expired and they released the film and started saying how dangerous the Suboxone Tablets are when in fact most of the people who abuse their Subs say the film is easier to abuse.
